Seeker Kaur says:
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Singh Jee 1 says:
Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Kee Fateh
Singh Jee 2 says:
Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh
Singh Jee 1 says:
veer jee, can you help us find why keski is a kakar?
Singh Jee 2 says:
hanji?
Singh Jee 1 says:
keski, whats its defintion as a kakkar
Singh Jee 2 says:
first of all
Singh Jee 2 says:
lets start with history
Singh Jee 2 says:
do you know about the singh sabha movement bhenji?
Seeker Kaur says:
nahi ji
Singh Jee 2 says:
ok well
Singh Jee 2 says:
around the 1800s
Singh Jee 2 says:
sikhi was down the drain, brahminism reigned supreme, they even
had a statue of ganesh at harmandir sahib
Singh Jee 2 says:
it was that bad, people would worship mahants, etc
Singh Jee 2 says:
a lot of that brahminism is still around (caste system, sants)
Singh Jee 2 says:
and some other rituals we tend to do that we cant weed out quite
yet
Singh Jee 2 says:
but anyway, around the late 1800s, hundreds of gursikhs got fed
up with it
Singh Jee 2 says:
they said we arent hindus, we are sikhs
Singh Jee 2 says:
we gotta get this outta our religion right
Singh Jee 2 says:
and so they started the singh sabha movement, to remove hinduism
from sikhi
Singh Jee 2 says:
(thats why theres so many gurudwaras called singh sabha still
around)
Singh Jee 2 says:
they created gurudwaras, retook akal takhat
Singh Jee 2 says:
they rewrote the maryada to the original using historical
documents and because most of these were the most educated sikhs on the planet
Singh Jee 2 says:
so they fixed it
Singh Jee 2 says:
well something thats always been there is dastar right, everyone
has to wear dastar
Singh Jee 1 says:
its what makes a sikh a sikh
Singh Jee 2 says:
anyway singh sabha died down around 1930s and gave way to the
SGPC
Singh Jee 2 says:
in the 1940s, a jathedar came about in akal takhat
Singh Jee 2 says:
Gurmukh Singh Musafir
Singh Jee 1 says:
yup
Singh Jee 1 says:
thats it
Seeker Kaur says:
hunji
Singh Jee 2 says:
and he noticed that well not many women were taking amrit
Singh Jee 2 says:
because they wanted to have new hairstyles and what not
Singh Jee 2 says:
and dress in saris like their hindu counterparts in india
Singh Jee 2 says:
right
Singh Jee 2 says:
so he said something like fine in the next 4 days
Singh Jee 2 says:
anyone who comes
Singh Jee 2 says:
he said anyone who comes in the next 4 days doesnt have to wear keski
Singh Jee 2 says:
now this kind of made all the singhs that just fixed sikhi mad right
Singh Jee 2 says:
but they couldnt do anything because he was the jathedar
Singh Jee 2 says:
and they respected that, they were too humble
Singh Jee 2 says:
because these were some chardi kala singhs right
Singh Jee 2 says:
and so anyway this gurmukh singh guy has control
Singh Jee 2 says:
and so for those 4 days thousands of women went to akal takhat
to take amrit without dastar
Singh Jee 2 says:
and then more demand for it started
Singh Jee 2 says:
and he said every other week, then every other day
Singh Jee 2 says:
then the other takhts started doing it and eventually, keski
just got phased out
Singh Jee 2 says:
now, bhai randhir singh was around during this time and he said
no.. gurmukh singh is wrong
Singh Jee 2 says:
and thats why akj still requires keski
Singh Jee 2 says:
because bhai randhir singh jee didnt allow his jatha to change
with this manmat
Singh Jee 2 says:
i dont agree with groups, but here akj is right
Singh Jee 2 says:
this man changed sikhi
Singh Jee 2 says:
over the course of time it became accepted
Singh Jee 2 says:
and people said then whats the 5th kakkar?
Singh Jee 2 says:
and eventually it became kes out of ignorance and people
deciding to forget history
Singh Jee 2 says:
but if you talk to anyone in their 70s or 80s they will tell u
what i just said
Singh Jee 2 says:
i learned it from bibi harsharan kaur jee and others
Singh Jee 1 says:
What about a list of reasons, or points?
Singh Jee 2 says:
ok, so list of reasons
Singh Jee 2 says:
Theres a book they handed out at a samagam
Singh Jee 2 says:
bhenji are u still with us?
Seeker Kaur says:
hunji
Singh Jee 2 says:
before i start on that do u have any questions? about the
history etc?
Seeker Kaur says:
nahi ji
Seeker Kaur says:
not at the moment
Singh Jee 2 says:
ok
Singh Jee 2 says:
now on to the word kakkar what does this mean?
Singh Jee 2 says:
linguists seem to say it comes from the punjabi verb karna,
which means to do or make
Singh Jee 2 says:
now if you notice all the other kakkars are made, right?
Singh Jee 2 says:
but we dont make our hair, god does
Singh Jee 2 says:
but we do make keski, thus keski is a kakkar
Singh Jee 2 says:
in bani it says saabat soorat dastar siraa, this means that the
human body must always have a dastar on it
Singh Jee 2 says:
also, some people right from birth dont have any hair because of
disease
Singh Jee 2 says:
how can they be amritdhari then?
Singh Jee 2 says:
u cant take amrit with only 4 kakkars
Singh Jee 2 says:
then amrit would be imperfect and not for everyone
Singh Jee 1 says:
Seeker kaur! make sure you're reading everything hes saying
Singh Jee 2 says:
and what if they lose their hair to a disease?
Seeker Kaur says:
i am!
Singh Jee 2 says:
then they are no longer amritdhari
Singh Jee 2 says:
also, why are only guys required to wear keski?
Singh Jee 2 says:
if you saw me at gurudwara with a braid
Singh Jee 2 says:
would u consider me a singh?
Singh Jee 1 says:
never!!
Singh Jee 1 says:
imagine if all men stopped wearing their dastaars, sikhi wouldnt be
carried on and it would go down the tubes
Seeker Kaur says:
waheguru
Singh Jee 1 says:
no one to carry on the tradition
Singh Jee 2 says:
so why is this split? if in sikhism men and women are equal?
Singh Jee 1 says:
sooner or later
Singh Jee 1 says:
other things would become lost too
Singh Jee 1 says:
the dastaar is the backbone of keeping sikhi alive and pure
Singh Jee 2 says:
in all the old rehitnamas
Singh Jee 2 says:
by Bhai Daya Singh Jee and others
Singh Jee 1 says:
Bhai chaupa singh, Bhai nandlal singh
Singh Jee 2 says:
and even historical accounts by goray and muslims
Singh Jee 1 says:
british generals
Singh Jee 1 says:
etc.
Singh Jee 2 says:
they say people took amrit with dastar, always, even women
Singh Jee 2 says:
which astonished many outside observers, so they made a point of
writing it
Singh Jee 2 says:
and all the old rehitnamas have requirements for each kakkar
Singh Jee 2 says:
(Ex. kanga must be wooden, kirpan must have a sheath)
Singh Jee 2 says:
why isnt there a similar requirement for kes?
Singh Jee 2 says:
why is it that kes is considered a kurait?
Singh Jee 2 says:
its held higher in sikhi than any of the kakkars
Singh Jee 2 says:
if u cut ur hair then u have to pesh
Singh Jee 2 says:
why not pesh for any of the other kakars?
Singh Jee 2 says:
if u drop ur kanga u just say waheguroo and do ardas, u dont
go pesh
Singh Jee 1 says:
okay Seeker kaur bhenji
Singh Jee 1 says:
are you convinced yet?
Singh Jee 2 says:
yes, because i have a lot more information
Singh Jee 1 says:
i think Singh Jee 2 is more then willing to do more seva and go on
and on
Singh Jee 2 says:
yes...
Seeker Kaur says:
waheguru
Singh Jee 2 says:
so what do u think?
Singh Jee 2 says:
still need more information?
Seeker Kaur says:
nahi bhaji, i think its good
Singh Jee 1 says:
if you read everything, theres no way you wouldnt have been
convinced
Singh Jee 1 says:
so Seeker kaur, start wearing a keski!
Seeker Kaur says:
oh bhaji, i am convinced
Seeker Kaur says:
waheguru
Singh Jee 2 says:
ok bhenji, keep learning about gursikhi! For more information
you can also check out this link: http://www.tapoban.org/keski.htm
Singh Jee 2 says:
Waheguroo jee ka khalsa! Waheguroo jee kee fateh!!
Seeker Kaur says:
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh
Singh Jee 1 says:
Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji kee fateh
